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Ross Jul 28, 2017
Yes! Exactly! .. and as the front wrist stays flat or even a bit bowed out. Both are working to hold the shape. This shape helps keep the shaft in line with the front arm for a very solid shot.On the downswing, key to maintaining this shape through impact, is to use the body turning or unwinding to drag that shape through impact and around to the left (right hander).
One other important reminder … the shoulders must start the backswing. The shoulders move that shape and the arms/club on the takeaway. Many golfers think they’re using their shoulders, but in reality they’re grabbing the club with the hands (changing the shape) and then the shoulders give up and let the hands take over (NOT GOOD). Practice starting the club back with the shoulders. The club should be off the ground to start… then push with the shoulders. Takes practice but produces very powerful, repeatable shots.
Ross Apr 02, 2017
In a nutshell … setup with the front wrist flat and the back wrist bent in a bit and that “shape” is maintained back and through. I feel both hands with equal pressure holding the shape as the shoulders take the club back (a little) and then the body brings the arms/club right back and around to the left (right hander). It will feel like your “dragging” the shaft (with wrists holding the shape) through impact around to the left. If you’re having difficulty then the wrists are not holding firm enough or the body is not doing its job rotating and the hands are taking over.It is best to start with little pitch shots, and just feel the shoulders move (backswing), then the body unwind (downswing) and nothing changes with the wrists from your original setup shape. You may want to exaggerate the flat (or even bowed out a bit) front wrist to help hold.
One other crucial factor in holding that shape, is that the pad below your little finger on the front hand is on top of the shaft… can’t be off to the side. Watch the “Grip” video if needed.
What is important is that the grip pressure remain constant. The best grip pressure for each golfer, is the one that will allow the setup shape (shaft in line with the front arm with a square club face), to return the same. If that takes a firm feeling pressure then do that. My experience has been the lighter pressures allow the wrists (hence club face) to move around and makes it more difficult to return square or even worse, to flip the club head creating off center hits and inconsistent direction.
Ross Jan 24, 2021
If you use your shoulders on the backswing, the club head stays outside the hands. I use this concept as a reference for students that use their hands to help the backswing and they end up hinging the club head behind the hands. There is no particular point or place that the club head changes. It does not matter where it goes, if you’re only using the shoulders on the backswing. Each golfer is different. Hint: Focus on the shoulders doing the job. Takes work and practice.Ross Jan 29, 2021
Oh, I see… I think this idea could help you keep the elbows towards each other. I’ve never used one, but have been teaching this concept ever since I saw a drawing in Hogan’s book (from the 1950s) of a rope wrapped around the arms keeping them working as a fixed unit. I then realized, that the idea also helped the shoulders control the backswing, keeping the arms/wrists passive and submissive to the shoulders. One other thing this device may help with is, shortening or stopping the elbows from separating towards the top of the backswing and lifting into what I call “the twilight zone”… where the arms are disconnected from the body’s control. It is like the point of no return. Thanks AlanRoss Jan 28, 2021
I don’t know the drills, but it sounds totally contrary to what I teach. If the forearms separate, the elbows move apart, the radius shortens and will not be repeatable. I really don’t see any reason to do what you’re saying. I don’t search other techniques or drills.Ross Jan 30, 2021
The old concepts of seeing knuckles is for old traditional golf instruction. It would use a setup “look of the knuckles” to pre-offset a correction factor, for how the hands were gonna throw the club head at the ball. None of this is repeatable. In a Large Muscles swing, we use our body’s rotation vs. throwing the club head for power, so there is no need for pre-corrections in our grip. We try to setup our grip with the club face square and shaft inline with the front arm, and ideally a flat to bowed out front wrist, because this is how we want to return. Hogan discovered this bowed front wrist and called it “supination”. He did not setup that way, but he would have to go through all kinds of adjustments and gyrations during the downswing, just before impact to get into the same impact position that we just setup with. FYI… the strongest, most supportive grip “look” at impact is, front wrist slightly bowed out, shaft inline with front arm, back wrist bent in helping hold the wrist in that shape. Any other look at impact and the club face can easily turn/twist and can cause off-center hits. Sorry for the lengthy explanation. So my answer to you Femgolf1 … experiment with some grip changes to find a setup shape that allows you to just turn through impact without any flip or hand manipulation needed to achieve a square club face.Ross Feb 09, 2021
I think the Ross Move Lesson Video explains what happens, but I’ll try to help clarify. Essentially, the “body” (I’m referring to everything except the arms/club) will control and move the arms/club. The “body” is swinging the arms/club. The arms/club naturally will want to fall towards the ground due to gravity, if you are not using muscles in the arms/hands to manipulate or hold or help the downswing. Now, I use the “elbows” as a reference point to re-align so the body does not spin out leaving the arms/club behind. So, on the downswing, the body is unwinding from ground up, with a sense that it will swing the arms/club back down in front, as the body continues accelerating all the way to the finish. The faster the body unwinds, the faster the arms/club are pulled down by the body’s rotation (while not using the arm/hands muscles to help). This move produces speed and power if done correctly.Ross Feb 09, 2021
This does get complicated and I know exactly what you’re saying and I’ve addressed it years back when hitting Hybrids off the ground… https://movelessgetgood.com/hit-hybrids-woods-easily-off-the-fairway/. It’s all about compensations to get the golf swing to be repeatable to produce a solid golf shot. It has to do with knowing, the lowest point of the swing arc is just about at the front foot. In short, Steve opens his shoulders to allow the club head to move closer to the ball at setup. And, during the swing his body will be unwinding and his hips will end up through impact roughly where his shoulders were at setup. I also know that you can just leave a gap at setup that allows you to keep your shoulder, knees, hips more inline and trust that you’ll make good contact. This is a very complicated subject and could take many different tangents about compensations and offsets. The only concept I use from Carl Lohren is the front shoulder to start the swing. I’ve expanded that to be both shoulders turning around the spine if the golfer prefers. It was also my understanding that Carl Lohren first saw this front shoulder move in Ben Hogan’s swing… I may be wrong.Ross Feb 16, 2021
You do not want to try to use the shoulder down/up method for full swing. That is just for putting/chipping. In the full swing the shoulders rotate around the spine. Watch the “Shoulder Turn” Lesson video in the Swing Section to clarify. The front shoulder does not move down on full swing.The downswing unwinds from ground up. The hips are leading the arms and bringing the arms back down and around. Watch the Ross Move to learn how the body’s rotation brings the arms/club back down and around. Everything does not turn together… it is an unwinding and everything finishes together.
Ross Feb 16, 2021
#1 – I choke down on many clubs for different reasons. The main reason is for control and altering the shaft length for different distances and results. Other reasons may be to keep the ball low… as in taking extra club, then choking down to keep it low out of the wind or to roll once it hits the green. Another reason is in a bunker to offset the amount I adjusted my feet down, as I secured my stance.#2 – Not really using my methods. When you move the ball back, you descend down on the ball creating spin and not as solid of a shot. Spin is unpredictable. There are better ways. I prefer meeting the ball just slightly before the bottom of the swing arc and use gravity to control how the ball descends and then responds. It is more like tossing a ball and choosing the angle you want it to hit the green to respond the way you want.
#3 – The down/up method for chipping will work well, but chipping is limited and not as reliable as pitching (my preferred shot around the green).
Ross
Ross Feb 20, 2021
Golfers that start the down swing with their lower body (hips) before the backswing finishes are:
1. Not starting their backswing using the shoulders FIRST to remove the slack in their back muscles. SO, they have a need to fix that aspect with the lower body or “hips” starting before the backswing has finished. Essentially they’re creating the windup effect during the backswing… we create it at the very start.2. Or (more rare)… they are disconnecting and allowing the arms/club to continue moving back or up as the hips are starting forward.
Everyone will look a little different depending on how much they are letting the “shoulders” control the backswing and if they’re letting the arms/club be controlled by the shoulders. Watch the “Ross Move” and the “Ross Move Drill” for more on the hips moving too fast as you say… and getting stuck.
Ross Sep 23, 2021
With our method, the goal is to have the club face return back at the ball how we started. The highest odds of that happening, are, if we setup in a manner that the arms are fully extended, shaft in line with the front arm, and then maintain that shape during the backswing and back into impact.Other methods, the due to allowing non-repeatable muscles to get involved in the backswing process, either start somewhat collapsed (not fully extended at setup), or lift, bend or breakdown during the backswing, creating the need to increase the “width” (essentially extending the radius by straightening out the front elbow or a feeling of pushing out), to try to achieve a maximum radius before impact. The “Ross” move kind of does this somewhat by adding inertia that pulls or stretches out the arms a bit of some golfers.
Hope this explains it … Ross
Ross Mar 24
No clockface concept. I don’t use anything like this with my method. Not needed. Distance is determined by speed of rotation through impact all the way to the finish. You’ll know how far to take it back based on the speed needed through impact. This is also developed, when you practice at the driving range, particular distances like 50 yds, 70 yds, 85yds and watch as you turn through faster to achieve these distances. No clockface needed. Everyone is different. Clockface concept is not reliable or athletic.