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Ross Mar 29, 2017
#1 No comment#2 That is not true. It depends on the shaft angle … and depends on his “swinging” concept. We don’t swing the arms … our body is unwinding and dragging the shaft/arms through and around to the left. Everything is moving the ball. This is much different than traditional flipping the club head or letting the arms swing past the body through impact. That can add loft (effective loft) and spin. It also depends on when the club face makes contact with the ball with respect to the swing arc … before the bottom, at the bottom or even a little bit after the bottom on the way back up. They all affect the ball flight.
#3 Oh yea !! that is truly the case. There is no education on Golf Instruction (per se) and anyone can teach golf. There was a very old outdated teaching manual that contained all the traditional golf teaching cliches. I have always had big problems with this topic and just kept (and keep) searching for better more reliable instruction.
Ross Mar 28, 2017
I remember the “let the club do the work” phase… and I’m still waiting… haha. The club never wants to take over and do the work…. haha. What I mean … is, that “Let the club do the work”, is a useless (detrimental) thought because, obviously the club can not move itself, so some part(s) of the body have to do the work and that though actually works against you.This EXACT reason is why I developed my method of teaching. So few teachers know how the body works and make comments like “Swing your arms”… okay with what?? What swings my arms?? Or “release the club”… if I do it will fly out of my hands… or “Load up on the backswing” Many are like parrots just repeating the same old non-specific thoughts…. “Keep your head down” or “Hit down on it” …. sorry (little rant)… all useless, because they don’t tell you or explain what muscles need to move and how they work together.
I don’t like your “collecting into impact” that sounds like something culminates there. Impact is just a moment in the trip where the ball happens to be. We are ACCELERATING through impact, to finish together. Jon Rahm is an awesome example of this… short backswing and then turns fast to the finish and everything ends together (like one move). This is thought is MUCH better. Everything finishes together! Now, they don’t swing together … there is a wind-up, and un-wind on both the backswing and downswing, but everything finishes together… EVERY SHOT.
The Ross Move is to teach you to let the body bring the arms/club back down in front of the body, and around to the left (right hander). This is all one continuous, accelerating move. Uninhibited and nothing “happens” … the ball just gets in the way. Forget about the ball. Picture the whole downswing trip at the pace you intend to turn through, … then COPY IT! … see how you want to finish together, then DO IT! Your body will follow the mental image you send it and will find a way to get it done.
Ross Mar 24, 2017
I’m sure many golfers can relate to what you just said. Might be time for new friends that are more encouraging.Golf has so many competitive areas… score, distance, direction, attitude, self control… there’s really no end. Your friends don’t “mean well”, they’re just “mean” and want to rattle you so they can win. Some think that part of golf is the best part.
I remember playing a tournament one day and a fellow competitor would rattle his pocket full of spare change just before my takeaway on almost every shot/putt. Pretty soon I was more focused on when he was going to rattle the change than my routine. Hum… where do you draw the line. Is that cheating?
Golf used to be called a “Gentleman’s Sport”. Guess that got lost somewhere [confused].
I think wearing ear plugs or head phones might be something to try. Then you could pull one of them off your ear and say to your friend… “Sorry, did you say something… I didn’t hear you”. Hahaha
Ross Mar 23, 2017
Great Dave ! Since there are fewer “moving parts” to my method, usually does not take much to get back on track. Also, what you mentioned about not “entirely” using the shoulders can occur later in the round as (we all) get a bit tired depending on our conditioning. That is why having the “shoulders” thought or keyword in our routine, to start the backswing, helps keep the shoulders “starting” and “controlling” the backswing.Ross Mar 10, 2017
If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re saying you have trouble doing the Ross move throughout all the clubs. Yes the distance the arms/club travel on the backswing is different for shorter and longer clubs. This is why I developed the Ross move.One of the main reasons that happens is, the shorter the club length, the more tilt in the spine, and the more restricted (limited) the shoulder turn is on the backswing… or, in other words the longer the club length, the more vertical the tilt in the spine, and the shoulders can rotate farther on the backswing.
If you are truly using only your shoulders on the backswing, and then only using your body to unwind the down swing, there should be no issue. My point, is if your arms/club are being left behind on longer clubs, then your body rotation is NOT bring your arms back down in front of you and around to the left (right hander)… in other words, your body has lost touch of where your arms/club are, and the body is not doing its job to “bring” them back down in front.
If your body needed to throw a huge boulder to your left, and you were holding this boulder with your arms and hands, the body would not just spin out leaving the arms and boulder behind … The body would totally be aware of the boulder’s weight, and it’s job to move the boulder and arms through to throw it to your left. Try to be aware of your arms/club at the finish of the backswing, and use your body to bring them down and around.
NOW… those last paragraphs were about leaving your arms/club behind… and you said arms take over and that is usually for different reasons.
It can be from leaving them behind and you created a need for them to catch up, so they move themselves or take over (as you say) …AGAIN, this is the Ross Move not being achieved on the downswing. You created an “urge”, usually a panic move for the arms/hands, trying to get back to the ball in time 🙁 The worst part of this is the body “stops”* rotating to let the arms/hands catch up, … and once the body stops, the arms/club past the body’s rotation and you’re in trouble.
I would practice the Ross Move using your Driver at a very slow pace. Copy Hideki Matsuyama’s pause in the backswing to help you feel “The Ross Move”. It will help a lot.
*It is extremely rare that the hips keep moving while the arms take over. Your hips are probably pausing/stopping for a 1/2 second, then what you see is the arms momentum start pulling your hips around to the end.
Actually, I do in a sense. The difference is in chipping the shoulders move in a down/up movement (like putting)… all the rest of my instruction, Pitching and Swing, the shoulders do start the movement, but move around the spine (not up/down). Carl Lohren saw this movement in Ben Hogan’s swing many years ago and wrote a book called “One Move to Better Golf”*. This around the spine movement for the shoulders is more of a front shoulder moving forward as the back shoulder moves back. This movement starts the backswing and the other very important component is that, once the backswing has finished, the body rotation then takes over and rotates all the way to the finish. It is not a partial follow through. This allows the large muscles to control the entire movement back and through to the finish.
* The shoulders starting the swing in this fashion is the only part of Carl Lohren’s teaching that I agree with and use.
Ross 25 days ago
The chip shot is a much shorter shot and does not require more than a simple up & down movement (like a putting stroke) to lift the ball up a bit out of the grass, land it on the green and get it rolling. For control and repeatability, there’s no need to move anything else to produce the result we need. The shoulders can move up & down …or they can also move around the spine for much longer pitch shots or even for the full swing. This is why there are two different ways to move the shoulders to produce shots depending on the situation.Ross Aug 27, 2014
Yes, Move Less … Get Good! for sure.Now, on the downswing, once your back shoulder touches your chin, you want to allow your head to come up and out to face the target. This means the you do not try to keep holding your chest. It too, comes along. In other words, you don’t want anything restricting the body’s rotation… you go along with it to the finish.
This “chest hold” idea is about staying on the ball… which makes the golf swing a “wind”, “unwind” movement vs. slide off the ball, then try to slide back (really not good). This works with setup 60% weight on the front foot, and keep it there on the backswing, which makes for very solid impact. Yes, it takes practice, but you’ll want to do it once your see the results. Also, when you practice this, you’ll have many solid hits, and then know immediately when you’ve moved off the ball and how to fix it
I like your “Mantra” term. I’ve used mantras for over 20 years to help each student have a 2 or 3 word – rhythm, or tempo with words*, for their specific needs. Example for someone who slides off the ball to the back foot, I might use the word “hold”, that will represent them bracing the back leg to the instep of the back foot during the backswing to keep them from sliding. So instead of picturing the entire sentence, they have a “word” for the “change” we’re wanting.
* Each “word” represents a single “change”… like “Shoulders” “Rotate” in rhythm, could represent the entire backswing (Shoulders turning around the spine) and the downswing (Unwinding or Rotating the body completely to the finish). So in this example, the complete golf swing has been reduced to 2 words. This is advanced, but I use these mantras for beginners too, to learn setup and other elements. They make practice and routine on the course, simple and repeatable.
Ross Sep 16, 2018
Yes, for the very reason you mentioned. I always swing better when I feel the backswing finish…then the downswing starts. This is really good when the downswing is not “rushed”. It needs to gather speed to the finish.Ross Mar 09, 2015
No worries [smile].I spent many years to have more of a “method” (setup through to the finish), so I didn’t just throw out “golf tips”. Real lasting change comes from practice and incorporating the change into your routine. Following a “routine” is the only way to ever be consistent out on the course.
If you have an analysis coming, send me a couple videos: (1) swing front view and (1) swing from behind looking down the target line… and we can dial in on your specific issues.
Additional Analysis are $20 … more
Ross Mar 07, 2015
Please re-read my response. Unless you’re “left handed”, I did NOT say to keep your right arm from folding. I said:“Focus on the front arm staying straight.” (not the back)
Also, I do not debate methods*. It just confuses others. If I thought Hogan’s method was complete, consistent and reliable, I would not have spent the last 30 years searching for improvements. Don’t get me wrong, he was awesome and very talented, but everything has room for improvement.
With my method, we just start with the elbows correct pointing back at the hips and keep it that way, since we want it that way at impact.
Always, the best way for me to help you (or anyone), is to look at your swing videos vs. guessing.
* FYI… Hogan also taught to turn the front elbow back at the front hip through impact (so he would not “shank”), and since he opened club face at the top of the backswing, he also needed to supinate just before impact to square the open club face.
Ross Mar 01, 2015
Possibly because you’re not flipping as much. Sometimes winter fairways allow the ball to run more.Ross Mar 01, 2015
Focus on the front arm staying straight. The back arm will be “folded” a little. The more the arm(s) pull on their own across the chest on the backswing, the more the back elbow needs to fold. The more the elbow bends, is usually a sign that the arms/hands are involved (not good).Ideally the arms (pretty much), stay in front of the body on the backswing, maintaining the radius and extension. The back elbow does not need to bend much when done correctly. We want to let the shoulders move all of this. If you do, you are developing potential in the back muscles for more power. Bending and lifting ruins this.
A correct backswing is much shorter than most golfer’s think. When backswing get longer, it is usually do to breakdown in the arms/elbows/hands, or over rotation of the hips. Keeping the elbows working towards each other helps keep them in check.