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1. The shoulders setup “level” (as much as they can with the back hand lower on the grip), BUT, they turn around the spine (roughly 90° to the spine). The shoulders don’t turn level parallel to the ground.
2. Yes we sit down more with shorter club, but maintain the athletic counter balance (so to speak), with the tailbone out more to compensate. There are no specific ratios, it’s a balance thing, keeping your weight over your feet evenly.
3. Yes the hands are close to the body for wedge. If the elbows are close together and arms are hanging on top of your pecs, there should be no issues.
4. Yes the swing is steeper for wedge vs. driver. You don’t have to worry about it, just turn your shoulders around your spine at the spine angle you end up with, once you’re when you’re in balance… and for the conditions of the lie of the ball. Setup takes practice and experimentation… but you must always be in balance athletically!
5. Setup the club with the shaft in line with the front arm, elbows close together and let that hang… then sit down the ball athletically with 60% of your weight forward. You don’t have to think about “changes”. You can’t try to calculate change in spine angle, wrist angle, distance from the body etc. (for each club and situation)… just trust sitting down to the ball once your arms are setup.
Ross Jun 23, 2014
Hi Jim
No, as long as when the back shoulder moves, the front shoulder moves too. You do not want a separation where the back shoulder moves first by itself.Ross
Ross Apr 28, 2016
If the ball goes left (and you’re right handed), you either used your back hand to help (flipped), or your arms got ahead of the body rotation. Answer: Make sure your rotation DOMINATES and lead the arms/club or… it might be easier to just use more club, or be satisfied with what you can do with the club in your hand.Usually, it is all an amateur can do, to hit the ball straight, let alone try to add “When a shot calls for a faster swing”… to the equation. If you’ve practiced “increasing” your swing, then go for it, but most have not and don’t have that option in their bag… so, play the shot you know and make up whatever you need on a different shot on the hole… like chip closer… or, making a longer putt. What I’m saying is, play within your ability and you get what you get. Don’t stretch it, unless you’ve put in the time and have the shot.
Ross Apr 24, 2016
If I understand the question correctly… yes you can (and should), choke up or down to adjust for the shot needed.First, never grip the club on the “end” of the shaft. There is usually an inch or so just before the end of the grip that “flares” out and you want to be under that flare for control. Now, gripping lower really has no limit depending on the shot needed. Many times around the green (in a precarious lie), I’ve had to choke down so far, I’ve gripped SW below the grip on the shaft, to get the shaft angle and face exactly how I need it, so the ball will respond accordingly.
The key to what you said (knee flex and distance from the ball) is just following the “routine”. Once you’ve gripped the club for your needs… get your arm template set, let it hang… then sit “balanced” and “athletic” down to the ball. This allows you to turn your shoulders freely, still rotate and swing in balance.
An example of what not to do: The ball is way above your feet, so you just lift your arms up as to take a baseball swing. That rarely ever works for many reasons [frown]. If you choke way down on the club, you can stand a lot closer to the ball and it will be much more like a regular swing. Now, you’re not going to get maximum distance, but you will know where the ball is going and be out of trouble. So you “took your medicine*” and you can then make it up on the next shots.
* “Took your medicine” a saying I heard as a kid that meant… okay you got yourself into trouble, now “get out of trouble first”, then move on with playing the hole. The “Hero” type shots are rarely pulled of by amateurs… so “take your medicine”, “get out of trouble”, “forget about what just happened”… then focus on the present… how to capitalize from where ever the ball lies.
Ross Apr 23, 2016
I honestly have not heard enough from golfer’s that have tried. Again, it will be trade-offs. Gain accuracy lose distance. My method already hits the ball pretty straight once learned, so losing distance (for no gain) does not make sense to me.Interesting story: One of the biggest problems with Jr. Camps in general is kind of the same concept (same length – too short for the loft) and one of the reasons many kids don’t like golf, or struggle at first. The golf courses/pros think it is okay to take a bunch of unmatched, lost and found golf clubs… cut them down to fit the kids, then teach them for a week. Just try to hit a 3 iron, cut down to a 7 iron length.
Now, I know the “new” same length clubs are not cut down and the shafts probably adjust some and are designed for the lower lofted clubs, but the geometry scares me. I can see golfers over swinging for more distance. Also, I’m thinking the trajectories will be lower, because of the lack of shaft length to help get the ball up, so it can drop out of the sky on the the green.
Oversized Grip:
I would just experiment with an oversize grip on one of your clubs to see if it helps or hurts your game.Ross Apr 30, 2016
I agree. I think you said it perfectly. Also, the courses most golfers play on are not the same playing conditions.carlgo May 16, 2016
This was a good tip for me as my stance had drifted too wide over time and that made it harder for me to get a decent backswing and to rotate properly. The backswing is the most inconsistent thing for me, for some reason, and has a big effect on what happens after that. At least for me.Ross May 05, 2016
Usually if your knees don’t touch, you didn’t finish rotating to the outside of your front foot… and problems can occur. Find a comfortable stance so you can rotate completely.Ross May 19, 2016
You’re an inspiration JW66 [thumb] I like your drive and positive self talk. This game is tough and needs constant attention…that’s half the fun I think.Ross
Ross Aug 29, 2014
That’s awesome Dan!Once your brain correlates the “feeling” of keeping the face square, to more solid, straight and consistent shots, it will start to “accept” this swing change as valid, and override the old muscle memory. This takes time and is different for everyone. I’ve seen, that anyone that wants lasting change, will have to put in the time/effort, to give your body/brain time to change and accept. It is like an vague image that becomes more and more vivid and clear over time. This does not happen in a swing or a moment like “now I got it”… you develop it.
– You get it, you lose it
– You get it back better, then you lose it better (but with experience)
– You lose it less often, and get it back much quicker [wink]… in time you learn more about yourself and your golf swing.
Glad you came by Dan…
Ross Jun 04, 2014
I have really emphasized lately, to some of my other students having flipping, throwing problems, to SHORTEN THE BACKSWING AND FOCUS ON SPEEDING UP THE BODY ROTATION ON THE DOWNSWING. This has worked wonders for them. The reason, if you allow your backswing to get too long, the arms lift slightly or the wrists hinge a bit, and then you are going to “throw the club head” to help catch up, but if you stop the backswing when the shoulders are done (will feel short and weird at first), you haven’t hinged or lifted and can now just focus on turning for the downswing… and I mean go! … TURN. The shorter backswing gives you confidence that you can return to the ball easily and keep going… no hit… just turn… commit! Think of it as a drill for a while and you’ll build confidence and know that you don’t have to help… just turn on the downswing.I wanted to add this to help you understand why shorter is better…
If you take the club back with the shoulders like 1/2 way, the hands and arms are more likely to still be under control. As you lengthen the backswing, generally what happens is… the hands and arms now take over and lift and hinge. That “Action” of the hands/arms (is a disconnect from Large Muscles), but it forces the “Reaction” on the downswing. So, practice with a shoulders only, shorter backswing and your hands and arms will get the idea. As you get better, you may make a bigger shoulder turn if it works… but if not, go back to the shorter backswing.
FYI… the downswing and commitment to tuning through faster, is what produces accuracy and distance… not the backswing.
Ross
Ross May 22, 2016
I didn’t see Pete K. talking about sliding, but I know why it happens (and will tell you in a sec.), but I did see Pete K. talking about Jordan’s hips way ahead of his swing, and anyone that has worked on my method that have block shots, the first thing I say is watch “The Ross Move” which teaches you how to bring down the arms/club back in front of the body, so what Jordan is doing can’t happen.NOW, a big reason it is happening to begin with is… he does not wind up like we do… from top down. He slides a bit into the back leg* and then tries to wind his shoulders, but lately is getting more of an ” arm lift” vs. shoulder turn. If he just knew how to start his shoulders first, there would be a HUGE improvement… BECAUSE, if you’ve wound up correctly, you really can’t get ahead with the hips on the downswing… everything is connected. So, when you fire the hips, here come the arms/club. There is a “continuity” through the muscles. Since, he winds up late in the backswing, he can get ahead of himself, because there is slack in his back. If there’s slack, the hips can move by themselves and leave the arms/club behind. AND, if he also knew how to keep the face square on the backswing (he opens it because he has mostly a traditional golf swing), even if his hips were ahead, he’d still hit the ball straight.
I know this is a lot of info, but I’m sure many of you know exactly what I’m talking about, because I’ve beens saying this for almost 20 years. The shoulders MUST start first on the backswing (ala Jason Day and many others that know). Essentially… you should not need “The Ross Move” if you’ve wound up correctly….
HINT: Almost no one has ever left their arm behind when they through a ball. You would not fire your hips and leave your arm behind… the hips unwind at a pace, to bring the arm/ball through and you let go.
* Since he slides, he has to slide back and that will lead to problems. It is almost like change the ball position mid-swing. If you get ahead of the ball (on the downswing), the face does not have time to close and the shot is blocked.
Ross May 24, 2016
Yes. All swings for every shot move the same. You may setup different for different lies, conditions or results.Now, the term fairway woods is too general anymore. The only real difference is whether you meet the ball at the bottom of the swing arc (for like 3 wood), or just before the bottom (higher lofted woods/hybrids). There is not much difference… and when in doubt, meet the ball at the bottom of the swing arc.
What changes more (between clubs), is the width of the stance and you have to figure that out on your own for how you rotate and what is comfortable. You can watch “Ball Position & Front Hip Rotation” for more.
Ross May 24, 2016
Hi J.T.Q1 No, not necessarily. It turns for some golfers and some hold it. It can be used to help keep your weight forward, for those that slide, or let their back leg move laterally.
Q2 Ideally, the start of the downswing is an “entire” unwinding move (like throwing a ball). You don’t have to think about what starts is and the body unwinds from ground up. If, you struggle with starting the downswing, “The Finish Drill” will help teach the feeling of how the “hips” work at the start. Now, for a right hander, the front (left) hip should feel like someone is pulling your left hip belt loop and spinning you around… but I’m not saying the “left hip” does anything alone… the hips/body all unwind together like a rubber band unwinding (if the backswing was wound up correctly).
Q3 Yes, they play a very big part. Again, do the “Finish Drill” and learn which of your muscles fire to accomplish that drill.
Q4 This is not a quick answer and can have many different reasons, BUT in general, a typical correct finish (any golf swing any method), will have almost ALL your weight on the outside of your front foot, with the front foot sole slightly off the ground. Very little weight is on the toe of the back foot at this point just for balance. I would have to see your specific reason for not completing your downswing. Some golfers have to modify their setup (flare out front foot at setup), to allow them to rotate to the finish of the front foot. The “Roll your Feet” video can show you a little more how the front foot should look at the finish.
Q5 I don’t think age has anything to do with it. Sometimes physical limitations play a part, but there are some adjustments that can be made to help allow the turn to complete.
Ross Jul 01, 2016
Let me look. Send it to me. I know I can rotate it and may be able to flip it too. Please use the Contact at http://duplessisgolf.com vs. the forums for direct contact for swing analysis… thanks