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DaveF Apr 13, 2016
Ross,
Once the shoulders return back in front of the hips on the downswing, do you personally feel a substantial difference in the steepness of the shoulder turn between driver and wedges or even 9 iron, or is more of a mid to minor variation where you mostly feel like you are “sweeping” the ball vs. “hitting down” at it with the shorter clubs? Or does it largely feel like the same motion with just sitting down more? Are we trying to turn “as level as possible” with every club? I have had equal amounts of success and failure with either feel maintaining the fundamentals of the method, but not sure at this point what I should be going for. Hard to explain but I hope you know what I mean. Thanks.
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Ross Apr 13, 2016 · Edited
First… I don’t think I’ve ever said “the shoulders return back in front of the hips”… I say, the body’s rotation brings the arms/club back in front, so they’re not left behind. This is just a “position” so to speak as you’re turning through impact. Nothing happens at impact. There is no feeling difference at impact. The body is accelerating, and the ball gets in the way. There is no sense of “sweeping” or “hitting down” at it. All I feel is my body unwinding to face the target. Nothing has to be done or change, if all was right during the backswing.As far as the shoulders go… if you think about them just winding up, and then being unwound, 90° to the the spine, you’ll be in good shape. The “being unwound” is like a total body task… like throwing a ball. You let your body unwind to move your throwing arm through. When I throw a ball, I don’t ever feel like my shoulders take over or help on their own… my entire body unwinds like a rubber band. As far as your “turn level” question goes. You setup with the shoulders essentially “level”, but they turn around the spine at 90° on what ever “tilt” angle your spine is on (for the club and lie you have). So, if you have a short club, they still turn 90° to the spine, and that will cause a steeper angle of attack… BUT, you don’t have to worry about this.
forum Apr 01, 2016
I have found that on my backswing with my elbows pinching I have much better results if my upper arms are pulling my pectorals with them on the shoulder turn. Prior to this change, my arms were sliding over the pectorals. This may be contrary to Ross’s instruction but it has made a huge difference in my consistency.DaveF Jan 13, 2016
Thanks so much. I was afraid I was going down another blind alley. I was getting stuck in the posture that worked for 3i because I was hitting it great, and then having issues with mid-irons.
I was unconsciously trying to use the same posture and shoulder turn, etc.
Anyway, overall, I am finally starting to swing and finish in balance.
Cheers!DaveF Jan 12, 2016
Hi Ross,
Sorry for the over explanation up front!!
Please edit!Q:
Do we feel like regardless of club length that the shoulders turn LEVEL and we are just sitting down MORE with shorter clubs?
Or can the spine angle be lower as well (tailbone out more)?
Ie “how much more knee bend vs. how much more spine angle” as the clubs get shorter”? Is it a case of whatever works?When I sit down “more” with a wedge with the same upright posture my hands are almost in front of my knees (it feels awkward and “gorilla like”).
When I bend more at the hips I consequently turn my shoulders more vertically than I would with the longer clubs.
It works, but am I possibly making an erroneous compensation?In case i’m not explaining myself well (likely), for an illustration reference, attached is the mainstream type approach where the stance and hand to body gap doesn’t change, but the wrist angle DOES with each club. We want our arms to hang and keep the wrists in the same solid position with all clubs, so what changes for us with each club?
Thanks – I would like to schedule a Skype session with you once I absorb your response.
Dave
megolf70 Apr 28, 2016
Now that makes sense. It really doesn’t matter if I reach the green with a PW or 8 iron as long as I am on the green. Thank you for your ever fantastic take on the game. You have made this journey so much easier.megolf70 Apr 28, 2016
Hello Ross,
I have a set of clubs that are all the same length by 1iron golf. They all have the same exact swing weight and feel the same with each loft. The set up is the same for each iron. Since working with your swing my consistency with each loft has improved tremendously.
The yardage gap from 9 iron to 3 iron is progressively consistent up the ladder. Granted I use a 9 iron now where I used to use a PW, but since the clubs are fitted to my height my accuracy is dead on when I remember to use the pre-shot routine you advocate.I have one question for you. What do you recommend when the shot calls for a faster swing? (meaning when you want increased distance for a certain shot). When I try to increase distance with driver or any club for that matter I seem to pull it left. Do you think I should try to unwind faster?
Thanks,
Megolf70forum Apr 24, 2016
This is a related question regarding what is the optimum position of the hands on the grip? One could choke up or move the hands higher on the grip and still get into a proper set-up by adjusting knee flex and distance from the ball.carlgo May 16, 2016
This was a good tip for me as my stance had drifted too wide over time and that made it harder for me to get a decent backswing and to rotate properly. The backswing is the most inconsistent thing for me, for some reason, and has a big effect on what happens after that. At least for me.JW66 May 16, 2016
Greetings
The “get it and lose it ” syndrome has hit me twice (probably more!) One-my shoulders were not level; the right one was way down so no shoulder turn. Then I got lazy on putting my weight to the left and became short and inconsistent. Fixing that was like you waved a magic wand over me. In both instances, a mirror helped. We have a big mirror in the garage and it helps in seeing the swing flaws that may not be obvious while playing. It almost always come back to setup, doesn’t it? I also keep a log of every round and every practice session, which for me is walking a few holes late afternoon, with a few balls. If it’s a bad shot, I get to do it over. Once I write it down, it sticks better. It also helps in seeing the continued progress of learning the Ross way. Tomorrow I’m trying the gap with putting. In the house, it feels pretty good and helps to visualize keeping everything quite except the shoulders. Onward!Dan Aug 28, 2014
Bro-
I decided to take a look around the forum and I happened upon this thread from June. You know how I “roll” -my hands that is. I took this advice, to shorten the back swing, and the results were a solid shots with the right trajectory. It might take a little time to lengthen my backswing, but I’m really not concerned about that. It’s a good feeling to hit the ball so consistently. Incidentally, the pitching lesson has really paid off. I played UNM North today, and pitched the ball to within a foot on three holes. Now, that’s a confidence builder. Talk to you soon.Ed_Blackburn1 May 23, 2016
LOL, of course I meant the Byron Nelson, got my sports mixed up.[redface]A mind is a terrible thing to lose.
DaveF May 28, 2016
I was thinking the same thing, that maybe I’m just so “athletically challenged” I’d never get it.
I used to either be all arms or I’d be literally falling out of my stance when I tried to turn my hips.
The Impact Drill has been huge in that regard.
Yesterday I thought my turn issues had returned.
I looked at video and it was my shoulder turn as Ross indicates in Q2 – not winding the shoulders correctly.
The less I move, the better I get!DaveF Jun 15, 2016
Hi Ross,
Regarding the Ross move,assuming the backswing and everything else is done correctly, at what point in the downswing are the elbows fully back in front of your hips?
In order of how soon that occurs, Is it:
a) “as soon as possible”
b) some point well before the ball (similar to the gap drill position at address)
c) close to or at impact?Lately I’ve been creeping toward option a) and not getting good results.
Thanks!
DaveAnthony225 Nov 27, 2015
I think that Davew’s statement helped:“If you follow the instruction ‘to the letter’ this issue will probably not arise since the arm’s will come back roughly the same way they went up – by up I mean up the plane (sorry Ross) and they will come back down the plane. One issue that complicates this is that in most cases the arms ‘lift’ with respect to the body AND the plane. This means they have to descend in two way’s on the way down – one down the plane and one back to the body. It is the latter which is prone to cause problem’s as it can easily lead to a disconnection and the body can ‘leave the arm’s behind’.”
I thought about this for a bit and tried the Ross Move drill again in the back yard. I think I may have closed the gap on my disconnection problem. At least with short swings so far.
That’s twice Davew helped clear something up for me. Sometimes its good to have someone who also struggled with a fundamental part of the swing to “chip” in.
Thanks!
